Comments on The Gray Report: Would you buy a "bad vintage"?

BTW, in total comment drift, thanks for the dining...

2012-01-25T17:53:51.287-08:00

BTW, in total comment drift, thanks for the dining tips, folks. I had dinner at Aioli -- pulpo gallego (octopus/potato) was great -- and lunch at Ella. Fine meals, I'd go back to either.

From my perspective as a retail buyer for a small,...

2012-01-25T17:09:51.648-08:00

From my perspective as a retail buyer for a small, independent shop, I read the press but make my decisions based on what's in the glass in front of me. There are so many regions/producers/vintages to try to keep with that my poor brain can only hold so much, and what seems to be most important to my customer is what the wine actually tastes like. The ones that ask about specific vintages

I'd like to offer the perspective of a non-ins...

2012-01-25T10:02:51.168-08:00

I'd like to offer the perspective of a non-insdusty, wine enthusiast. I am starting to build a collection, and my concern as a buyer rests with long-term aging potential. This puts me in the minority, as I know 95% of bottles purchased are consumed within a week.

Fred Swan pointed out that an "off vintage" results from poor weather conditions, often requiring a longer

What if the bad vintage that we just went threw is...

2012-01-25T08:45:16.837-08:00

What if the bad vintage that we just went threw is unpresidented in mordern day california winemaking for certain veritals? Could we look @ a heightened consumer awarness of california vintages? Say Cab from paso Robles in 2011 is a loss and worse than any one could have ever thought, with hundreds+ of tons being harvested @ under 20 brix. However, rhones and zin had a banner year especially

We make a point to under-emphasize vintages... go...

2012-01-24T16:52:51.807-08:00

We make a point to under-emphasize vintages...

good winemakers make good wine

crappy winemakers make crappy wine

on a side note:
did you ever hear of the '58 Chevy?
-great car
-same people made it
-they moved the radio left 1/8",

-BUT, people collect the '57 chevy

useful analogy?

My two cents is that the comments should be divide...

2012-01-24T10:07:42.813-08:00

My two cents is that the comments should be divided up between regions of the world that have vintages in the traditional sense and those that do not. I know that there have been variations in the past few years in California, but I would be willing to bet that the largest swings in vintage variation barely compare to the roller coasters the non "hot climate" regions experience.

I agree with John Kelley. There is often an intere...

2012-01-24T09:19:19.412-08:00

I agree with John Kelley. There is often an interesting overlap between "bad" vintages and difficult market conditions. Think of the "bad" 1998 Napa Cabernets that arrived on the market at the same time as a minor recession, a grape glut and warehousing-stuffing 2000 Bordeaux. Or the "bad" 2007 Oregon Pinot Noirs hitting the warehouses at a time of intensive

From my experience with the 2007 Vintage in Oregon...

2012-01-24T08:51:00.628-08:00

From my experience with the 2007 Vintage in Oregon I can say that consumers do care about vintage. Early reports about that vintage created a momentum that was very hard to overcome. Consumers consistently wanted to by pass the vintage and talk about the 2008's.

The lesson I learned is that a region has to get thier story out first, before critics can torpedo the ship.

I agree with everyone else that for the most part ...

2012-01-24T08:16:13.511-08:00

I agree with everyone else that for the most part consumers don't seem to care about vintage. Working in a tasting room in Napa, I do get the occasional requests for specific vintages.

It seems to be the consumer with very little wine knowledge that usually asks about a certain vintage. For example, the visitor had the 2009 Moscato once and now they're in the retail shop

100% with Patrick, in that "bad" vintage...

2012-01-24T07:27:10.136-08:00

100% with Patrick, in that "bad" vintages for some regions should be like a neon sign for wine lovers saying "ON SALE!!!" GREAT bargains can be had there, because sometimes those vintages that aren't the darlings of the critics make for wines that are beguiling, long-lived and more food-friendly...

I look forward to sitting in on the session! My pe...

2012-01-23T17:54:32.880-08:00

I look forward to sitting in on the session! My personal opinion (covering sales for a small winery) is that it is easy to lower the price of wine but much harder to raise the price again after a "good" vintage. Everyone from distributors to retailers to consumers are happy when you lower the price. The only person that's really happy when the price is raised is the winery.

I'm a consumer and I buy 90% CA wines. To me a...

2012-01-23T17:40:43.434-08:00

I'm a consumer and I buy 90% CA wines. To me a "bad" vintage is a shopping opportunity, because even in bad years, somebody makes good wine. And usually the price will be lower.

In Sacto, try Ella (1131 K St. at 12th). At the bar, they make EVERYthing from scratch. This is if you want a break from wine.

A consistent theme of these comments and some of s...

2012-01-23T15:41:43.884-08:00

A consistent theme of these comments and some of seen on Twitter is that low ratings on a vintage should mean lower prices for the wine.

That sounds like a no-brainer, but I wonder how exactly that happens. Must wineries cut their wholesale prices? Should they? Is that good or bad business for the long term?

I can only speak for my own retail store but we ta...

2012-01-23T15:30:29.664-08:00

I can only speak for my own retail store but we taste new vintages as they come out and if we like the wine, we like the wine; it doesn't matter to us if it's from a "trashed" vintage. Overall, what critics and magazines write is an over generalization of a vintage and it does not matter to our customers, especially if we are successful in explaining to them the character of the

When I worked at Trader Joe's, no one within t...

2012-01-23T14:52:40.390-08:00

When I worked at Trader Joe's, no one within the company seemed to care about the vintage of the wines we'd bring in. Externally, the customers who were asking about such things were few and far between, perhaps one or two out of every 50. I can't ever remember getting a notification from our higher-ups that a vintage was changing.

In Dundee, most of my tasting room guests

In my view, lesser vintages give the wine consumer...

2012-01-23T13:23:34.414-08:00

In my view, lesser vintages give the wine consumer the opportunity to taste some of the better producers' wines at (hopefully) lower prices. Invariably, the better producers seem to produce good wine even in the lesser years. They are also more attractive in restaurants where mark-ups often preclude tasting the greater vintages. At least in my opinion.

Vintages don't matter much to consumers unless...

2012-01-23T12:55:49.648-08:00

Vintages don't matter much to consumers unless we all cluck so loud they can't help but hear something (think 2008 Smoke Taint). And with the trade, vintage discussions are generally more about availability because everyone has learned that while conditions may have made it a difficult vintage, there will always be great lots of wine that emerge, just less of it. Our yields are

Andy here... Normally, I agree that there is very ...

2012-01-23T12:37:47.699-08:00

Andy here... Normally, I agree that there is very little generalizable vintage variation in California -- simply put, there are so many microclimates based upon elevation and proximity to the coast, and too many varietals planted in each microclimate to really make a one sized fits all assessment of a year (unlike France -- where vintage assessments have more validity IMO due to much less

I have often purchased wines from "off" ...

2012-01-23T12:02:20.750-08:00

I have often purchased wines from "off" vintages and been happy with the results. As I believe you pointed out, sometimes poor weather can lead to a longer growing season, less sugar and less jammy flavors. I do see that as a positive in some wines. Unfortunately for the wineries, bottles from challenged years may also be available at very attractive prices due to the mass perception

Who cares about wine. Go eat tapas at Aioli!

2012-01-23T11:29:12.258-08:00

Who cares about wine. Go eat tapas at Aioli!

From my experience in sales (in Sacramento) buyers...

2012-01-23T10:34:28.095-08:00

From my experience in sales (in Sacramento) buyers really don't pay that much attention to vintage except at high price points. The by the glass market doesn't care. If you lucky enough to be in the allocation aisle so to speak I would suggest using "off" vintages as a way for consumers to get "on the list" and guarantee future allotments.

As to dining,

John: That's very interesting perspective, esp...

2012-01-23T10:03:58.243-08:00

John: That's very interesting perspective, especially because I know two members of our panel are chomping at the bit to point out that California is a big state with different microclimates. Also, that conditions supposedly "bad" for one grape might not be bad for another.

How does one respond to these distributors?

Consumers don't care about vintage, but distri...

2012-01-23T09:32:12.977-08:00

Consumers don't care about vintage, but distributors and retailers do. From my perspective, the denizens of the middle tier are looking for any reason they can latch on to to say "no" to the wine someone just poured for them - whether they like it or not.

A vintage that gets trashed in the media is a bonus to them - they use bad press to beat up suppliers on price. Even

I work in a tasting room from time to time up in A...

2012-01-23T08:56:57.487-08:00

I work in a tasting room from time to time up in Amador County. I don't think I've ever heard a customer ask or even comment on a specific year. Given that, and my other casual conversation regarding food and wine with co-workers, family and friends, it seems to me that to the masses are less concerned with vintage and more with "is this bottle of wine tasty". For those in the

Jon: The UPC thing is great info, thanks. Unfort...

2012-01-23T08:43:19.235-08:00

Jon: The UPC thing is great info, thanks.

Unfortunately I know about people's wine-reading habits: It's usually a lot or nothing, with not much in between. This does bring up the question of whether news about a vintage even reaches people in the latter category. But somehow it did about the '98 vintage.