tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9210235767643862872.post33701080097780230..comments2024-03-18T04:47:16.199-07:00Comments on The Gray Report: "Wine From Here" documentary proves terroir doesn't matterW. Blake Grayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17755307711801965966noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9210235767643862872.post-22781169311009693142011-09-13T10:48:26.990-07:002011-09-13T10:48:26.990-07:00In Germany, don't winemakers use clean modern ...In Germany, don't winemakers use clean modern winemaking practices in order to highlight terroir? I have always felt that it is difficult to get a sense of the terroir if the wine is aldehydic. In this regard, I think natural wines fail in the concept. That is not saying that I don't like those wines, I actually love them and drink them quite often.Joel Brüthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10440138689626649136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9210235767643862872.post-78988335471715151012011-09-13T02:31:52.901-07:002011-09-13T02:31:52.901-07:00I thought that was amusing, as well- the failure t...I thought that was amusing, as well- the failure to identify a wine's origin, even approximately. If you try it, it's very difficult to do. A lot of people, maybe all, understand the word terroir as some kind of code for a genuine wine. The people who know the taste of places are negociants and the makers of mass-produced blended wines who in the course of their daily routine taste markhttp://bunterwine.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9210235767643862872.post-60994923539145847452011-09-11T12:52:47.175-07:002011-09-11T12:52:47.175-07:00A documentary film about a fringe movement in wine...A documentary film about a fringe movement in winemaking hardly proves anything. Last time I checked it was scientific evidence that offered proof of validity. While there's not tons of good wine science on terroir, there's enough to know that it exists, and that the effect is most evident in aroma.<br />I'd also echo many other commentators with a quote from Raymond Bernard who Larry Brooksnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9210235767643862872.post-63086523280011314912011-09-10T15:15:20.353-07:002011-09-10T15:15:20.353-07:00Anon: I don't know about future screenings, bu...Anon: I don't know about future screenings, but hopefully Martin Carel will let me know, and if so I will tell you.W. Blake Grayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17755307711801965966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9210235767643862872.post-80837742014769757852011-09-10T14:40:55.238-07:002011-09-10T14:40:55.238-07:00Andy here..
Sorry, did not mean to imply the &quo...Andy here..<br /><br />Sorry, did not mean to imply the "natural wine" movement is BS...rather the BS is calling it "non-interventional". And Fabio -- as you note, my point is correct. Despite your admission in this blog, the natural wine press generally spits out the word "intervention" like it is something invented from the bowels of Voldermort. And maybe in Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9210235767643862872.post-12072968821830003022011-09-10T07:28:54.649-07:002011-09-10T07:28:54.649-07:00do you know if the movie is going to be exhibited ...do you know if the movie is going to be exhibited somewhere?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9210235767643862872.post-75068647327398561932011-09-09T22:04:07.685-07:002011-09-09T22:04:07.685-07:00So many intelligent, thoughtful comments. Geez, I ...So many intelligent, thoughtful comments. Geez, I wish you guys would visit me at my day job. <br /><br />Remy: You've got it right. Geez, if I thought all Merlot tastes the same, I'd save a lot of money on wine. <br /><br />Randy: I think terroir matters, sure. I think producer matters more, but terroir matters. But I also believe I'll live long enough to see the Baltimore Orioles W. Blake Grayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17755307711801965966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9210235767643862872.post-74760574746770918582011-09-09T17:22:18.773-07:002011-09-09T17:22:18.773-07:00It is pretty widely accepted in the scientific com...It is pretty widely accepted in the scientific community that irrigation (especially after veraison) has a particular detrimental effect on the grape’s capacity to express a sense of place. Late season (mild) water stress induces the vine to direct most of its nutrients to the berry as a form of genetic survival. <br />Another consequence of dry-farming, besides the obvious reduction of yields, Peter O'Connorhttp://www.wine-ev.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9210235767643862872.post-53632958206014236182011-09-09T10:34:46.054-07:002011-09-09T10:34:46.054-07:00Thanks for the heads up re: the documentary.
My 2...Thanks for the heads up re: the documentary.<br /><br />My 2 cents is perhaps the obvious - presently marketing matters to the bottom line more than all the other factors put together. Bad wine sells as well as good wine with enough buzz. I bet more market share will go to "natural wines" in the next few years. Single Vineyard Designation is still all the rage while blends usually tasteAlanahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05243050081315078092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9210235767643862872.post-71070934133614202222011-09-09T10:26:52.697-07:002011-09-09T10:26:52.697-07:00Big distinction to be made, here. It is not that t...Big distinction to be made, here. It is not that the wines were not different - in fact, in the movie, the tasters comment that the wines are very particular and different from one another. They just can't point to this wine being this terroir and this one being this other terroir. Very different idea.<br /><br />Saying "I can't tell if wine A is from region B or region C" is Rémy Charesthttp://winecase.canoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9210235767643862872.post-79320159837936795982011-09-09T09:54:55.811-07:002011-09-09T09:54:55.811-07:00I think Henri Jayer had the best take on this at a...I think Henri Jayer had the best take on this at a conference on terroir in Burgundy in 2000: "It's half the grapes and half what you do with them." Both halves are important--although since the winemaking comes second it leaves a more evident imprint.David Rameynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9210235767643862872.post-13884950333487187722011-09-09T09:44:28.102-07:002011-09-09T09:44:28.102-07:00Yes, what Randy said....
Blake, would be curious ...Yes, what Randy said....<br /><br />Blake, would be curious to know if you've had any of the wines from the winemakers in the film?Jeffnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9210235767643862872.post-56801043940169561082011-09-09T09:41:52.390-07:002011-09-09T09:41:52.390-07:00Blake, thanks for this. In a crowded field, diffe...Blake, thanks for this. In a crowded field, differentiation becomes a key element of marketing. Process ("Natural") becomes a way of separating one producer from others, and location ("terroir") becomes the ultimate point of differentiation since it is unique. But, if tasters can't tell the differences between the wines when tasted blind, what is the point? Here at U.CUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17823241611651788970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9210235767643862872.post-65257632906726593492011-09-09T07:53:20.651-07:002011-09-09T07:53:20.651-07:00Blake:
Blind tasting destroys wines context. On...Blake:<br /><br />Blind tasting destroys wines context. One should know what they drink before drinking. <br /><br />To approach wine from a blind tasting standpoint is to strip the education one can receive about terroir's influence in the finished product. <br /><br />Alaska "hot house". Hmm. I would argue that the wine will still be different. Never done it, but experienceChristophe Hedgesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9210235767643862872.post-19663805885590361512011-09-09T07:51:32.408-07:002011-09-09T07:51:32.408-07:00"Experts" have trouble telling the diffe..."Experts" have trouble telling the difference between grand crus grown in parts of the Medoc, the Cote d'Or, the Mosel and Saar, et al. Does that mean "terroir" is not important, or that it doesn't "exist?" That's a silly notion, so why entertain it? <br /><br />The movement on the West Coast towards making wines more expressive of where they come fromRandy Caparoso:https://www.blogger.com/profile/09592071993026270036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9210235767643862872.post-17487364506571406522011-09-09T01:51:21.562-07:002011-09-09T01:51:21.562-07:00Andy, in response to your 2nd point on interventio...Andy, in response to your 2nd point on interventions: I think everybody knows that some interventions are obviously necessary (eg, planting vines in rows, pruning, crushing, etc). But this is just a pointless strict semantic dictionary-definition of the word "non-intervention". I think that I speak for most (if not all) natural wine-makers when I say that we are against "Fabio (Vinos Ambiz)http://vinosambiz.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9210235767643862872.post-52339058990109570242011-09-08T21:10:46.249-07:002011-09-08T21:10:46.249-07:00Andy here...
2 main points from this --- first, i...Andy here...<br /><br />2 main points from this --- first, it ALL matters in terms of the finished product --> varietal, vineyard, trellis, weather, farming, yeast, method of crush (whole cluster, whole berry etc), yeast, additions, cold soak / maceration, elevage, bottle closure etc. Thats what makes wine so endlessly fascinating to me (I make 200-300 gallons per year)<br /><br />2nd -- partAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9210235767643862872.post-34133236158816073552011-09-08T17:12:24.661-07:002011-09-08T17:12:24.661-07:00Christophe: Is it a fact? Have you tried growing g...Christophe: Is it a fact? Have you tried growing grapes in Alaska (in a hothouse)? <br /><br />But that's not my point. My point is: if nobody could tell which was the Alaska Merlot and which was the California Merlot, how important could the terroir be? <br /><br />And seriously man, you have absolutely no standing to chide me not to be provocative, not after you plastered one of your bumperW. Blake Grayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17755307711801965966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9210235767643862872.post-70161019911419213362011-09-08T15:44:47.006-07:002011-09-08T15:44:47.006-07:00Title of your post:
"Wine From Here" ...Title of your post: <br /><br />"Wine From Here" documentary proves terroir doesn't matter<br /><br /><br />Blake:<br /><br />This is completely ludicrous. If I grew Merlot in Alaska they will taste different then grapes in CA. That is a fact. <br /><br />Sorry, but change your title if you want to invoke more interesting conversations.<br /><br />Christophe HedgesAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9210235767643862872.post-60367715797218003942011-09-08T15:35:31.344-07:002011-09-08T15:35:31.344-07:00Hi, I believe in the concept of expressing the ter...Hi, I believe in the concept of expressing the teroir in a wine, but I think that a lot of poeple forget that the grapegrower and winemaker has a huge impact on the final wine, much much more than the climate, soil type, or any other component that makes up the 'terroir'. Maybe that's why natural winemakers try to intervene or manipulate as little as possible, ie that way there's Fabio (Vinos Ambiz)http://vinosambiz.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9210235767643862872.post-84307015139541574452011-09-08T12:30:08.531-07:002011-09-08T12:30:08.531-07:00To ask the question a little differently: if you h...To ask the question a little differently: if you have to choose between two wines from Paul Draper, one from Montana, one from Monte Bello, which one would you pick?<br /><br />I'll guess the latter, which would mean that both do matter, to a certain extent.<br /><br />Another aspect as well is that if these winemakers are seeking to express the grapes and the terroirs differently from the Rémy Charesthttp://winecase.canoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9210235767643862872.post-46424228226791389792011-09-08T12:10:58.955-07:002011-09-08T12:10:58.955-07:00"Experts" eh? Self appointed? There is a..."Experts" eh? Self appointed? There is a practiced, systematic way to discern varieties and regions. The obvious exception here is when a wine is made in a way that fails to show any of these distinctions.<br />Most of these "experts" have not trained themselves in that method. A few of them are untrainable.SUAMWhttp://www.shutupandmakewine.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9210235767643862872.post-90257502961907926562011-09-08T12:08:22.801-07:002011-09-08T12:08:22.801-07:00Edanch: To clarify, in the film it wasn't that...Edanch: To clarify, in the film it wasn't that the experts couldn't tell one vineyard from another. They couldn't a wine from Mendocino County from a wine from Paso Robles from a wine from the Sierra Foothills.W. Blake Grayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17755307711801965966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9210235767643862872.post-66574991472600813132011-09-08T11:05:03.536-07:002011-09-08T11:05:03.536-07:00I think it's less about being able to identify...I think it's less about being able to identify the exact geography of Terroir and more about that "this" wine can only come from "this" given place. I love reading about how a Somm can take a blind sip and tell you it's from a 5 x 5 square foot of land in Burgundy. Who cares. I just want a distinct wine that represents a unique growing season and vinification that edanchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15317547589099807046noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9210235767643862872.post-34825182282402235712011-09-08T10:56:46.956-07:002011-09-08T10:56:46.956-07:00Without a doubt the winemaker is the one who dicta...Without a doubt the winemaker is the one who dictates the wine. Often winemakers are the individuals who breathe life into the "terroir." Without that individual crafting the wine, wine is plain and often not very delicious.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com