tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9210235767643862872.post2394833781960092330..comments2024-03-18T04:47:16.199-07:00Comments on The Gray Report: What causes red-wine headaches? A new theoryW. Blake Grayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17755307711801965966noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9210235767643862872.post-11194356320748982522015-03-14T23:47:34.591-07:002015-03-14T23:47:34.591-07:00From this weekend's Wall Street Journal wine c...From this weekend's Wall Street Journal wine column:<br /><br />"Wine Headache? Chances Are It's Not the Sulfites"<br /><br />Link: http://www.wsj.com/articles/wine-headache-chances-are-its-not-the-sulfites-1426250886<br /><br />From The Wall Street Journal (October 2000):<br /><br />"Why Do I Get Headaches From Wine?"<br /><br />Link: http://guides.wsj.com/wine/Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09537737782259421612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9210235767643862872.post-76023395214243253622015-03-05T12:43:29.824-08:002015-03-05T12:43:29.824-08:00Late to comment, but WOW, there is so much here to...Late to comment, but WOW, there is so much here to consider!<br /><br />Your friend's theory on yeast stress is fascinating, and reasonable.<br /><br /><i>Molybiogeek</i> brings some interesting points of view re. how our use of pesticides and other toxins affects the fruit, throughout the growing and later fermentation cycle.<br /><br />Then you have the individual -- that great wild card. Lisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08839236994990699117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9210235767643862872.post-14388950073389694272015-02-17T09:09:48.055-08:002015-02-17T09:09:48.055-08:00Histamines; vascular restriction; improper elevage...Histamines; vascular restriction; improper elevage, rushing the wine to bottle. (hence "jug and box wine" headaches). European wines historically were not as ripe and rich in phenolic structure that needed as much resolution as CA wine. There was less sun there and more rain during the growing season to moderate the grape chemistry.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9210235767643862872.post-78479562591394477412015-02-14T13:21:11.249-08:002015-02-14T13:21:11.249-08:00I rarely get red wine headaches. However, the few ...I rarely get red wine headaches. However, the few times have always involved central valley CA jug/box wines. One time about 20 years ago,I had an Inglenook Burgundy that gave me such a sudden and sharp headache after one glass that I actually tried again the next night to see if it would happen again... it did in exactly the same way. In my case, that would have been the wine to fully analyze Luciehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13268890389293447528noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9210235767643862872.post-89781821455073020652015-02-14T08:10:14.438-08:002015-02-14T08:10:14.438-08:00Lots of food for thought here. I think the industr...Lots of food for thought here. I think the industrially-made wines, more likely fermented with cultured yeasts and more intervention, higher SO2 levels, industrially-farmed vineyards, tend to cause more headaches. I hear all the time from my customers that they can drink our red wines without getting the headaches they expect from red wines. How sad that people "expect" red wine Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9210235767643862872.post-86421398932834770782015-02-14T01:54:14.945-08:002015-02-14T01:54:14.945-08:00MolyBioGeek's comments correlate best to my ow...MolyBioGeek's comments correlate best to my own empirical experience drinking "natural" vs "commercial" wines. I noticed that lesser-interventionist wines or, as a different category from this, higher-quality wines (as generally accepted by worldwide experts but perhaps with more "intervention") lead to a much faster recovery the day after, whereas with Alex Baldonadohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18302122652334412829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9210235767643862872.post-69242835734627839822015-02-14T01:00:57.551-08:002015-02-14T01:00:57.551-08:00Given the fact that there are a such a wide range ...Given the fact that there are a such a wide range of responses to what is always a hotly debated topic, it's clear that actual, controlled studies need to be carried out on the issue.<br /><br />For me at the moment, it seems akin to the issue found in cultivating truffles in that while possible, is difficult as we don't really understand them.<br /><br />Winemaking, despite the centuriesZzzzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10194540731851325282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9210235767643862872.post-19761955816997209792015-02-13T06:49:17.176-08:002015-02-13T06:49:17.176-08:00Weighing in on this because I get those headaches ...Weighing in on this because I get those headaches and have talked to doctors about them. 1. whoever said these headaches have nothing to do with allergies is full of crap. Those headaches ricochet through my sinuses worse than anything but the barometric pressure changes. 2. I've had several doctors tell me (and my Mom, who has the same issues) that the thing causing the headaches is a Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10899892459554292651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9210235767643862872.post-7914615949475932282015-02-12T18:33:41.113-08:002015-02-12T18:33:41.113-08:00Check my wine column on why I think red wines caus...Check my wine column on why I think red wines cause headaches per the below link...http://www.yourhoustonnews.com/search/?t=article&d1=1+year+ago&q=red+wine+and+reactionsWine Walkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08637435276879244935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9210235767643862872.post-88958089786225473942015-02-12T10:38:28.707-08:002015-02-12T10:38:28.707-08:00I am not sure where to start. EVERY fermentation i...I am not sure where to start. EVERY fermentation involves some degree of alcohol toxicity to the involved yeast, and the presence of alcohol in higher concentrations locally than is present in the must as a whole is a given. Natural yeast are MORE likely to be extremely alcohol sensitive, dying off prior to fermentation completion, and/or making more chemicals other than ethanol. It gets worse. Molybiogeekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09514383088553209699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9210235767643862872.post-2269015174951951822015-02-12T10:15:05.987-08:002015-02-12T10:15:05.987-08:00Fascinating. And useful, where to do more researc...Fascinating. And useful, where to do more research. I disagree that use of native vs. cultured is the crux. As you point out, it is the ferm products that are created when the yeast is hitting a top of the curve in its livability. That is an intersection of 2 datas sets, the yeast with the amt of sugar, not a single data point. Now I have to read the other citations, talk to David Ramey, etcMan About Winehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06184906755226888130noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9210235767643862872.post-42111116382269688922015-02-12T06:19:34.592-08:002015-02-12T06:19:34.592-08:00One last point (sorry) after reading the entire in...One last point (sorry) after reading the entire interview with Chris --- brett is, per the study I quoted and several other studies, the yeast the produces the highest level of biogenic amines. Just an interesting footnote as Chris mentions he doesn't have an issue with brett.<br /><br />Adam Lee<br />Siduri WinesAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00732062550589800444noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9210235767643862872.post-3641193174577347572015-02-12T05:47:57.202-08:002015-02-12T05:47:57.202-08:00Oops, guess I provided where I downloaded it....tr...Oops, guess I provided where I downloaded it....try here:<br /><br />http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Patrizia_Romano/publication/228521413_BIOGENIC_AMINE_FORMATION_IN_ALCOHOLIC_FERMENTATION/links/09e4151405544edaf0000000.pdf<br /><br />Adam Lee<br />Siduri WinesAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00732062550589800444noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9210235767643862872.post-76536903369167857322015-02-12T05:43:21.432-08:002015-02-12T05:43:21.432-08:00Blake,
There are lots of studies on biogenic amin...Blake,<br /><br />There are lots of studies on biogenic amine production (one of the leading headache causing theories, because of its vascular effects) and yeast. I'll supply a link to just one below, but to quote from the summary, "As yeast biogenic amine production among strains tested in our study appeared to be a strain<br />characteristic, the spontaneous fermentation of wine Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00732062550589800444noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9210235767643862872.post-84601667843342280012015-02-12T04:32:24.778-08:002015-02-12T04:32:24.778-08:00Fascinating, since I field the sulfite question al...Fascinating, since I field the sulfite question all the time, too.<br /><br />My first question: Do people get headaches from other yeast products, like bread? I assume not, but I don't know that anyone has actually ever studied this. If not, what's the difference between the way yeast works in bread and in wine?<br /><br />Second, we don't hear about people getting headaches from Jeff Siegelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16612139907510650419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9210235767643862872.post-50016131356440216572015-02-12T01:22:04.007-08:002015-02-12T01:22:04.007-08:00Odd to read this whole report without mention of h...Odd to read this whole report without mention of histamine, which is generally mentioned in any discussion of possible 'allergy to red wine', even if no-one that I know have has come up with the definitive answer.<br /><br />Also, the thing is, I believe that I'm old enough to remember the whole issue of red wine allergy being discussed long before cultured yeasts were used on a Wink Lorchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03892033554339197958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9210235767643862872.post-75636836847380709762015-02-11T12:29:37.706-08:002015-02-11T12:29:37.706-08:00Larry: Who tests commercial yeast? Has anyone ever...Larry: Who tests commercial yeast? Has anyone ever tested whether it produces "side chemistry" that's more likely to cause headaches? Has this research been published? Can anyone send it to me? I'd be happy to share it with readers if it exists. W. Blake Grayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17755307711801965966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9210235767643862872.post-14698508688504155712015-02-11T12:23:34.883-08:002015-02-11T12:23:34.883-08:00I almost don't know where to start with this, ...I almost don't know where to start with this, but Kimmo is on the correct track. The cleaner, healthier and more controlled all your fermentations are the less chance that there will be the formation of products that will give you a headache or other adverse allergenic type reactions. In general innoculated fermentations are cleaner and complete with fewer issues. The last thing you would Larry Brookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02195993743153519181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9210235767643862872.post-47040614439291742962015-02-11T09:25:03.653-08:002015-02-11T09:25:03.653-08:00"The upshot is, if you want to try drinking U..."The upshot is, if you want to try drinking US red wines without a headache, talk to your local wine shop (NOT a supermarket) about this theory and ask them to recommend some lower-alcohol wines made with natural yeast." <br /><br />Jesus. What's the role of natural yeasts in this? They have lower alcohol tolerance than S. cerevisiae or brett. I think following your logic the properKimmo Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10822952624841362979noreply@blogger.com